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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
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Posted - 2009.01.25 19:12:00 -
[1]
I think this pretty much sums it up.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 20:05:00 -
[2]
Seriously, the only real way of dealing with the mess is to default that debt which cannot be repaid, continue to repay that debt which can be repaid, fire the incompetent and enforce existing laws to bring fraudsters to justice.
Then we will have a true picture of what we can and can't afford.
Pipe dreams in the sky - the money to make them real does not exist. |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 23:00:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: goodby4u
Easiest way to get everybody into jobs:
Have half the populace dig holes and the other half fill them....\o/
Yeah, Keynes was great on jobs, not so great on wealth creation. His recipe for recovery was basically just paying with counterfeit money for people to burn calories. It would be more thermodynamically efficient to just line up tents and serve soup three times a day without the digging ritual, but then people might have time to think about their predicament. His prescription would only work if the government had earned savings with which to finance job creation schemes. Otherwise it is just a resource sink dilutive of everyone else's rewards for attempting to do something productive.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 00:29:00 -
[4]
Interesting to note the PWA, WPA, CCC and their kind were made superfluous by the second world war. Destruction of capital + labour shortage = employment win. The TVA on the other hand was something quite inspiring all by itself.
Also interesting to note the AAA and NRA, which were psychotic Stalinist bureaucracies. Thankfully legislators had the good sense to disband them early, before they did too much damage.
Second time around, I would not be surprised to see a similar mix of accomplishment, inefficiency and tyranny. |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 18:32:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 26/01/2009 18:34:36
Nebulous:
Interest is built into any exchange.
Remove the agreed medium of exchange for a moment.
If I have a digger and I lend it to you, I might allow you to return it without any form of payment. But even if it would have otherwise stood unutilised, I would be lending it at a cost because of wear that would reduce hours of operation available to me. I would also be lending it at a risk of a more serious problem developing.
So to prevent that cost and risk from turning into a loss every time, I would be naturally inclined to ask for something in return. This might be in the form of a share in the proceeds of whatever activity for which that digger is being used (eg use of the barn being built or a cart of topsoil), labour (eg fixing my roof) or a social favour (eg making an introduction of some sort). I would expect my cost and risk in making the loan to be covered, and to be sure I do not lose out given the inevitable uncertainty in evaluation, I would try to make a deliberate overestimate. If it works out, that becomes pure gain. If not, too bad. The presence of risk in any form means I do not always win.
This interest may then be in the form of a fixed 'illiquid' benefit (eg my roof no longer leaks) or it may be readily traded or reinvested in further production (eg I have some extra topsoil).
There is a limit to the complexity of a society that relies on barter. But even in a barter economy, there is interest (at its simplest, someone's interest in what you do with the stuff you borrowed from them). With that comes greed, as some humans are willing to go further than others to propagate their genes. But should the burden of interest become onerous, you can always withdraw your labour from its service.
Because interest is a social behaviour rather than an artificially constructed economic function, there is absolutely no possibility of ever getting rid of it, even if a non interest bearing monetary system is introduced, or monetary systems (agreed mediums of exchange) are done away with altogether.
Agreed mediums of exchange are handy because they permit many diggers from a diverse range of sources to be tasked to a large complex activity beyond the ability of a single individual's social network. Whether higher tier social complexity is desirable would be an interesting debate, but that is another thread. It is also more convenient for the interest to be fungible, to be paid in more of the agreed medium of exchange, with some form of settlement executed later according to the participant's needs or wishes. They can buy the services of a builder later if they wish.
So to recap:
Interest-bearing monetary systems are a formalisation of natural and rational social behaviour. |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 19:31:00 -
[6]
Humanity is a total locust swarm. The social complexity we have built up varies the time constant, but that's about it. I think without currency we would have ended up turning nature into more copies of ourselves only a little bit more slowly. |
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
The Firm.
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 20:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Super Whopper
Solution to the economy? Shoot the ones responsible, put their heads on spikes and show the world that this is what happens to cheats, frauds and the corrupt.
Nominations for the First Extraordinary All-Party Court of the Revolution are open, and I will take that as a 'yes'.  |
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